Dear Tom Raddatz,

Continued from Part Two of this response

QUESTION G1: Now, if we are punished in flaming fire with everlasting destruction for not obeying the gospel, can we still be saved without obeying the gospel? Obviously not, correct?

G1. Correct

QUESTION G2: Mr. Cook, since you have expressed concern for we Apostolic's souls, my question to you is- could you be so kind as to please quote for me from the scriptures any specifically stated alternate method by which we can OBEY the gospel, other than that which Peter summarized in Acts 2:38, and Paul expounded on in the book of Romans and elsewhere?

G2. Why would anyone want to undermine the clear teachings of scripture?

QUESTION G3: How other than Acts 2:38 does the scripture say to obey the gospel?

G3. Ah now this is the crux of the issue. You believe that you are saved because of your obedience where as the bible teaches that we are saved unto obedience. Those that believe then obey.

As far as I can see, the timing of "salvation" being before or after "belief" has nothing whatsoever to do with the question. You admitted "Those that believe then obey." The question was HOW the gospel is obeyed, not WHEN it is obeyed. I laid that out clearly with scripture.

"Repentance and faith are gifts from God"

Life is also a gift from God, but it is our option to live it or snuff it out.

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Repentance is also a commandment-

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

And repentance is available for whosoever will-

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

For God is NO RESPECTOR of persons.

The point about salvation being by grace is, not that we are saved "without works period," but that God's conditions, graciously, never match the gravity of our offences.

Repentance is no equal payment for forgiveness of murder, or any other sin, yet repentance is a condition that must be met, no matter how much faith we have. Water baptism is no equal payment for remission of sins, yet it is the condition for our remission of sins (Acts 2:38 Acts 22:16).

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.

Waiting on and receiving the promise of the Holy Ghost is no equal payment for the gift of the Holy Ghost, new birth, of Christ in us, yet it also is the condition that God has graciously bestowed upon us, that we may easily meet His condition, and yet thereby just as easily set ourselves apart from a disobedient, disbelieving world.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Scripturally, repentance is something we "do," therefore a "work," and it is something we must continue to do (work) daily, and that specifically for salvation's sake-

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF, and take up his cross DAILY, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but **WHOSOEVER WILL** LOSE *HIS* LIFE FOR MY SAKE, the same shall save it.

1 Cor 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I DIE DAILY.

1 Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Since repentance is a work that we must do daily, otherwise we will lose our lives and be castaways, we simply cannot honestly say salvation is without works. They are not our works, granted, as they are given us from God, but they are works nonetheless, and our salvation is most definitely conditional upon our doing them.

1 John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

We are not ignorant that it is indeed God that grants repentance (2 Tim 2:25, Acts 11:18), but the point that Jesus and Paul clearly, specifically make, is that it is up to us to do the work to satisfy God's condition of repentance.

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of GOD LEADETH THEE TO repentance?

Acts 26:20 But (Paul) showed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that THEY should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM;

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are TO WHOM YE OBEY; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

1 Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

2 Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The second type of scriptures, which talk about us being saved without works, such as Titus 3:5 and Eph. 2:1,5, are talking about the fact that...

Rom 5:6 ...when we were yet without strength, in due time CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY.

:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

We didn't first get ourselves holy, and therefore Jesus Christ came and died for us! Neither did we get ourselves holy and thereby find God. True enough. Jesus Christ died for our sins, and graciously made a plan of salvation (the gospel) within our reach, wherewith we can have His salvation applied to us. (Rom 1:16, 1 Pet 4:17, 2 Th 1:8-9, 1 Cor 15:1-4). Furthermore, He sought to deliver His salvation plan to us when we were not seeking Him (Rom 3:10-12). We didn't earn, nor did or do we deserve, Him to bestow His blood bought salvation plan upon us, nor do we make ourselves righteous before He bestows it upon us. It just doesn't get any simpler than that. But what He gives us is very real, and what He gives us works, and what He gives us we can very easily refuse and reject.

Look at Eph 2:1 & 5-

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:...

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Folks seem to neglect the fact that repentance, and baptism relate us to, and into Christ's death and burial respectively. Therefore, not only did Christ die for us while we were yet sinners, but also, before we are quickened in our mortal bodies by His Spirit (in other words, before we receive the promised gift of the Holy Ghost) WE ARE YET (EVEN AFTER REPENTANCE AND BAPTISM IN JESUS' NAME) STILL DEAD IN SINS AND TRESPASSES WAITING FOR THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT, WHICH IS LIFE (Rom 8:10)! THAT is what Eph. 2:5 is saying.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

We must OBEY the gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-4), or we will be eternally damned, (2 Th 1:8-9; 1 Pet 4:17) no matter who or what we profess ourselves to be!

In Jesus, His death, burial and resurrection were three separate and distinct events, not only in actuality, but also in function and effect. He had to be dead, and then subsequently buried before His body was resurrected/quickened! Therefore, WE have to be dead and buried before we can be quickened. That is what Eph. 2:5 means. We haven't obeyed the gospel if we haven't obeyed the gospel to the nth degree! (Gal. 1:6-9; Rom. 8:11). Fortunately, it's an extremely simple plan to obey as in obeying Acts 2:38.

The third point that the false doctrine of "grace through faith without works period" does is, it makes God a respecter of persons!

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation HE THAT FEARETH HIM, AND WORKETH RIGHTEOUSNESS, IS ACCEPTED WITH HIM.

If verse 35 is not true, then verse 34 is not true either. Therefore, without contradiction, salvation can be offered to whomsoever will-

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The scripture says that-

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If repentance and saving faith are purely gifts from God, then God is a respecter of persons contrary to the specific wording of Acts 10:34-35. Because your doctrine would have God sitting in heaven choosing who would receive the gift of saving faith and who wouldn't, which would also make God sadistic for promising salvation to whomsoever will when that would not be true according to your grace & faith alone doctrine.

Rom 4:1-5

4:1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?

2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

3For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

NASU

Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

NASU

2 Tim 2:24-3:1

24The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

NASU

Saving faith will always be accompanied by works and obediance. You dear sir have put the cart before the horse. The cart being obedience the horse being faith. Ephesians 2:8, 9

And once again, you, dear sir, have put words in God's mouth again. If you will notice, in Romans 4:1-5 it says-

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

The scripture doesn't say God counted Abraham's belief as "salvation." Therefore, to say it is, once again, is putting words in God's mouth.

We've got to keep in mind the arguments that the Biblical authors were wrestling with. On the subject of a Christian's walk in Christ, it was the works of the Old Testament Law that they were predominantly demonstrating had been done away, NOT that there are NO New Testament ordinances period!

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had ALSO ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary...

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

God has ordained us to GOOD works that WE should walk in them (Eph 2:10). Not OUR works, but HIS works, and that is the key "without works" folks ignore, they love to cut Him off before He gets to the obedience part. Notice what Romans 4 goes on to say-

Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of CIRCUMCISION, A SEAL OF THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

God never made an unconditional promise. CIRCUMCISION was a CONDITION of the imputation of righteousness by faith. Circumcision wasn't something God spiritually took care of- it was something Abraham had to DO or DIE!

Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, THAT SOUL SHALL BE CUT OFF from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Exo 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.

25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.

26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Although faith and grace alone people love to quote how righteousness was imputed upon his faith, they always seem to ignore or at least de-emphasize the fact that Abraham was not truly, finally justified until he offered Isaac, and then he was justified by his works, and through his works was faith made perfect-

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith MADE perfect?

23 AND THE SCRIPTURE WAS FULFILLED WHICH SAITH, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the Friend of God.

That's scripture, though admittedly we have to search the scriptures like Jesus taught us in order to confound Satan the deceiver! But there it is in black and white- " Seest thou how FAITH WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS, AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT? 23 **AND THE SCRIPTURE WAS FULFILLED** WHICH SAITH, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS"

We don't have to reinterpret that, or add any words at all to make it say what we believe! We didn't have to make up any terminology (like "eternal security") to say what we would have to also admit God never actually said! Why is that so hard for some to accept? On the other hand, false prophets love to quote how Abraham believed and it was imputed unto him for righteousness without deeds. But, like Satan ignoring the commandment against tempting the Lord, they ignore that such passages are specifically referring to works of the law, during a discussion on the taking away of the Old Testament Mosaic Law, and not at all on "no works period."

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, THE LAW, WHICH WAS FOUR HUNDRED AND THIRTY YEARS AFTER, CANNOT DISANNUL, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Now the scripture tells us OUR conditions-

Rom 4:11 And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: THAT HE MIGHT BE THE FATHER OF ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who **ALSO WALK IN THE STEPS OF THAT FAITH** of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Notice carefully the condition in verse 12. We must walk in the steps of that faith. It's not just a verbal, or even only an internal thing! We must walk in the steps of Abraham if we are the children of the faith of Abraham. There is no other type of saving faith in scripture than that of Abraham, the father of the faithful, Jew first, and also Gentile...

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham... obeyed;

And verse 14 clarifies exactly what type of works are being discussed- specifically "works of the law" not just any and all works period.

We search the scriptures, and find clarification. If Abraham was circumcised, so must we be, though spiritually, which is our baptism into the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Col 2:11-12), but even before that is our repentance, typified by Abraham coming out of the land of his fathers (Heb 11:8), and finally, receiving the promise of the Spirit, typified in Isaac, after waiting on God to deliver, not through taking it unto ourselves, as typified in Ishmael (which spiritually is those who "accept the Lord" on their terms, instead of waiting for the promise of the Spirit on God's terms!) (Gal 4:23-28)

Notice in the following, how, again and again, the point is specifically not "without works period" but specifically "without the works of the law"

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because THEY SOUGHT IT NOT BY FAITH, BUT AS IT WERE BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds OF THE LAW.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith?..

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith?

Now, back to the point the scripture makes in which it says

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for RIGHTEOUSNESS.

The scripture says that-

Ezek 33:13 When I shall say to the RIGHTEOUS, that he shall surely live; IF he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, **ALL** HIS RIGHTEOUSNESSES SHALL NOT BE REMEMBERED; but FOR HIS INIQUITY THAT HE HATH COMMITTED, HE SHALL DIE FOR IT.

14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;

15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

Furthermore, and contrary to your position, 1 Cor. 9 & 10 very specifically tell us that the falling away of sinful Hebrews was SPECIFICALLY AFTER THEY WERE SAVED, AND AFTER HAVING DRANK OF CHRIST THE ROCK, and as such are specifically stated to have been an example to us today that we NOT think we stand, lest we likewise fall!

1 Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 NOW THESE THINGS WERE OUR EXAMPLES, TO THE INTENT WE SHOULD NOT lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 *WHEREFORE* LET HIM THAT THINKETH HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, HAVING SAVED the people out of the land of Egypt, AFTERWARD DESTROYED them that believed not.

This is entirely true for today.

Mat 1:21 …thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

But being "saved" from our sins is simply not the same thing as the salvation that comes after we've endured unto the end-

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and THEY loved not their lives unto the death.

The experiences of the Israelites also perfectly pattern Eph. 2:8-10 if you would continue the passage and not cut it off mid-thought-

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that WE should walk in them.

Upon the Exodus, the Israelites truly could not save themselves from bondage to Pharaoh by their OWN works. So God graciously saved the Israelites from the plagues, including the one of death by gifting them a way out by sacrificing a lamb and striking the blood on the door posts. Though God graciously gave them this way out, if they didn't believe Him and didn't obey (it took both), then they would die right along with the Egyptians. Then God took them to the Red Sea, and He parted the waters- but they had to step across- God didn't do that for them, yet the parting of the Sea was a true gift to them, granted to them just as repentance is granted to us, and after the Egyptians followed the Sea swallowed them up in perfect analogy of having our sins, and our bondage to them, washed away by water. Even still they had to continue to obey. Remember that the scripture tells us these things all happened to them AFTER THEY WERE SAVED. Only the ones' who obeyed ultimately made it into the Promised Land even though they all were baptized (by going through the Red Sea- a type of water baptism, and in the fire and cloud- a type of spirit baptism) and drank of Christ- they yet perished who disobeyed, even though at one time they did believe, and had been "saved".

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: FOR HE THAT COMETH TO GOD MUST BELIEVE that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Your interpretation of salvation is a direct contradiction to a biblically stated definition of faith- HE THAT COMETH TO GOD MUST BELIEVE…THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, AFTER YE HAVE DONE the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL of my Father which is in heaven.

My point in bringing up obedience to the gospel was in the hopes that you could see that there is no salvation outside of obedience to the gospel, which includes for one thing being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins which is to be buried with Christ in water baptism. This fact alone disproves baptism into the titles Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, because the Father and Holy Ghost did not die- only the Son did. And it also supports baptism in Jesus name because there is none other name given among men under heaven whereby we must be saved- Jesus.

If you want, we can talk about your eternal security doctrine on another conversation. I am open to that. But I'm not going to spend much more time on it here. I've got more than enough to respond to on the subject of Oneness vs. Trinity.

QUESTION H1: Mr. Cook, what scriptural witnesses could you bring to court in corroboration and defense of your Trinitarian interpretation of, and which is based solely on, Matthew 28:19?

H1. I would the whole bible. My question to you is are you willing to disobey the clear teaching of this verse?

You are the one who first likened the Oneness/Trinity debates to putting our faiths on trial. I imagine the impact on me personally of your statement right here would be no less than if I were sitting on a jury, and had just heard one lawyer bring well over a dozen eyewitnesses in and question them one by one, each having the same story. (As I did in my last post to you with all the scriptural witnesses, including Jesus Himself, of water baptism in Jesus' name). And when the next lawyer comes up, rather than bringing forward even a single witness to the stand, simply says to the court- "I could bring in the whole world to testify against that" but actually brings in not a single, solitary soul, and merely goes and sits back down as if his declaration were as authoritative as to neutralize dozens of eyewitnesses. In my estimation, this second lawyer said more against his case than if he'd brought in a false witness. I can think of no one in the world that would believe he was doing anything more than bluffing, and doing a very poor job of it. But apparently you, Mr. Cook, think this panel of witnesses I've pulled together are altogether gullible, or that your words are so authoritative as to negate dozens of quoted scriptures, or that none of us would notice.

Nevertheless, you have made your answer. Let it be noted by "the court" that when asked, Mr. Cook actually brought forward absolutely not even ONE verse of scripture in corroboration of his interpretation of Matthew 28:19.

Furthermore, the wording of Matthew 28:19 is a commandment to baptize into a singular name. I do obey that, and I obey it according to the same name that all the Apostles obeyed it- in the name of Jesus. It is Trinitarians who disobey the clear wording of Matthew 28:19.

If in doubt, there is still one scripture that makes sure all bases are covered, no matter what the topic, which would include baptism-

Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do ALL in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

QUESTION I1: If you do not hold to this view, could you please explain to me why not, and why you would still defend the Trinitarian baptism formula?

I1. Scripture must be harmonized. If you listened to the debate then you have already heard what a believe to be an irrefutable explanation to this question.

That's the whole purpose in this exchange, Mr. Cook- in the debate I never heard anything even remotely close to being "irrefutable" in regards to your interpretation of the name to invoke in baptism. All you gave is one opinion after another- absolutely not one corroborating scripture or witness (besides that developed by pagan polytheistic philosophers that is)!

The scriptures you are referring to that must be harmonized would be the ones that I brought forth in my last email. For example these ones-

Acts 9:4 And (Saul) fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, WHO ART THOU, LORD? And the Lord said, I AM JESUS whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt THOU have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou **MUST** do.

Acts 22:12 And one Ananias... 13 ...said unto me, Brother Saul... 16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of US as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

What you do in lip service to giving "harmony" to scriptures, we Apostolics put into practice! What you do in writing off all the many, many scriptures in reference to baptism in "presupposition" to the pagan-mindset interpretation of one scripture is, that you actually have to simply make all the other commandments of none effect in order to keep your interpretation of one verse. I have some news for you. That is not harmony. That is selection and rejection!

Your interpretation would have us believe what Jesus really said was

Matt 28:19

19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of Jesus, of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

"These titles sum up different roles of God or modes of His revelation; by it's singular referenceto "name", it focuses upon the one name of God revealed in the New Testament. That name is Jesus." (David Bernard's explanation page 139)

First off, let us remember that it is not "my" interpretation, nor David Bernard's, but Jesus', the Apostle's and all the early church until the pagan philosophers coined the phrases and developed the terminology for the purpose of thinning down paganistic polytheism with biblical monotheism. This is historical fact. Just because one chooses to ignore this fact does not make it go away! If you won't believe scripture, maybe you'll believe historical facts-

"The Trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning, nor did they always go together. The teaching of the Apostles, indeed, prescribes baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, but on the next page speaks of those who have been baptized into the name of the Lord- the normal formula of the New Testament. In the third century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid... Pope Nicholas (858-867), in the Responsa ad consulta Bulgarorum, allowed baptism to be valid tantum in nomine Christi, AS IN ACTS... the Synod of Nemours (A.D. 1284), also asserted that baptism into the name of Christ alone was valid." -Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed., vol.3, pp365-366. (Stephen 1 254-257 Bishop of Rome, from a letter of Firmilianus to Cyprian: "But he (Stephen) says, 'the name of Christ conduces greatly to faith and to the sanctification of baptism, so that whoever has been baptized anywhere in the name of Christ, at once obtains the grace of Christ.'")

Didache 9 says- "But let no one eat, or drink of this eucharistic thanksgiving, but they that have been baptized into the name of the Lord..."

"There is little doubt that baptism was practiced by the first Christians as a kind of initiatory rite, when they received new believers into their community. Also, we can be quite certain that this baptism was given 'into the name of Jesus.'" Lars Hartman, "Baptism 'Into the Name of Jesus' and Early Christology" Studia Theologica; vol. 28, no. 1, p. 21.

"The New Testament knows ONLY baptism in the name of Jesus. . .which still occurs even in the second and third centuries." Schaff-Herzog Ency. of Religious Knowledge Volume 1, page 435‹1966 edition:

"The formula used was 'in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ' or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name." Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics; Edited by James Hastings; Volume 2, page 384, 1958 edition

"We gather from Acts 19:4, that John had merely baptized in the name of the coming Messiah, without identifying him with Jesus of Nazareth. the Apostolic age supplied this identification, and the normal use during it seems to have been 'into Christ Jesus,' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ' simply, or 'of the Lord Jesus Christ.'" The Encyclopedia Britannica; under Origin of Christian Baptism, Volume 3, pages 365 and 368, 1910 edition:

"Moreover, there is no mention in the New Testament of any one being baptized into the name of the Trinity." A Dictionary of the Bible by James Hastings Volume 1, page 241, 1906 edition:

"With the early disciples generally baptism was 'in the name of Jesus Christ." A History of the Christian Church by Williston Walker page 87, 1959 edition:

under Formula: "In the name of Jesus Christ or of the Lord Jesus. The former expression is used in Acts 2:38 and 10:48. The latter is used in Acts 8:16 and 19:5. See also Acts 22:16. . .From these passages, and from Paul's words in Corinthians 1 :13 ('Was Paul crucified for you, or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?'), it is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Jesus Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Jesus.' THIS VIEW IS CONFIRMED BY THE FACT that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single, not TRIPLE, as WAS THE LATER CREED." Encyclopedia Biblica; Volume 1, page 473, 1899 edition:

"The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century" Canney Encyclopedia, page 53.

In condemning and belittling us for not ascribing to the Trinity, Trinitarians are also condemning the whole early church as being blind until enlightened by the polytheistic pagans!

"The Trinity doctrine... traces it's history to a rebellious extremist named Tertullian... And it is not improbable that the development of the doctrine of THE TRINITY, WHICH FORMED NO PART OF THE ORIGINAL JEWISH CHRISTIANITY, may be traced to Egyptian influence; as the whole of the OLDER EGYPTIAN THEOLOGY WAS PERMEATED WITH THE IDEA OF TRIPLE DIVINITY, as seen by both in the triads of gods which the various cities worshipped, and in the threefold names, representing three differing aspects of the same personality, under which each god might be addressed." -Joseph Crafton Milne, "A History of Egypt, pg 155. Vol. 5. as quoted in After The Way Called Heresy, by Thomas Weisser, pg 21.

"Is there not something that proves the Trinity a superstition in the very Creed of Athanasius, and in the fact that the church has not awoke her thunders against that long ago. Let us quote part of it. 'Whosoever will be saved must hold the Catholic faith. The Catholic faith is this, -that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... Which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved...' ...THE ANATHEMAS OF HEAVEN for that of which the good people of an earlier world must certainly have had no idea." John Miller, Is God a Trinity? pages 34-35.

I wish you would take an honest look at what you are implying here in light of all the scriptural and historical evidence you've been given.

QUESTION I2: If you do hold that position, then I have some additional questions for you.

QUESTION I3: If Peter was wrong on the day of Pentecost, why didn't any of the other apostles correct him?

Please refer to the debate where this question is addressed very thoroughly.

This is not really an answer, but an evasion of the question. In the debate you did state that if the Apostles were wrong it would be better to obey Jesus, so you did in a way admit there is a discrepancy between what the Apostles practiced and your interpretation of Matthew 28:19. You also offered only your opinion that baptism meant "by the authority of Jesus". Your response here demonstrates you have no other authority for your position than your personal interpretations, which you offered in the debate. In other words- you're evading the questions again!

QUESTION I4: If Peter was wrong on the day of Pentecost, why did the Lord send him to Cornelius' house to perpetuate the same error?

n/a

Then why did you say in the debate that "if" the Apostles were wrong it was preferable to obey Jesus?

You seem to forget, or simply want to ignore and deny that it was Jesus Himself who told Paul what he MUST do, and what ended up being what he MUST do was invoking the name of Jesus in baptism to wash away his sins! (see scriptures above in I1)

QUESTION I5: If Peter was wrong on the day of Pentecost, and we should obey the Lord rather than the Apostles, why is it written that Jesus both opened up the Apostles understanding (Luke 24:45), and that Jesus prayed for those who would believe on Him through their word (John 17:20), and why was the Lord working with him with signs following (Mark 16:20)?

n/a

You are correct. There are no scriptures either available or applicable in order to respond correctly to this question from the Trinitarian perspective. Therefore the question stands, and the Trinity remains questionable.

QUESTION I6: If it is better to obey the Lord Jesus than the Apostles, why does Acts 2:41-42 make such commendation of those who "continued steadfastly in the Apostle's doctrine"?

n/a

QUESTION I7a: What does the word "therefore" mean to you?

17A. "because of"

QUESTION I7b: Why did Jesus say- "….All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye THEREFORE, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the (singular) name…"? Matt. 28:18-19.

17B. Because God is one and yet He is three in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. The "Therefore" exists to be the motivating factor to obey Christ's command.

More private interpretation without any scriptural basis. I get the opinion that you Trinitarians are pretty proud of your reasoning capabilities and really have no need for finding and quoting the word of God to express your doctrine!

Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

The "therefore" links "all power is given to me" with " in the (singular) name of"

When we search the scriptures, we find both the name of the Father, and the name of the Holy Ghost tied to Jesus. There is no other name given under heaven among men whereby we must be saved!

The Name of the Father-

"Jesus...lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father... I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world... And I have declared unto them thy name..." -John 17:1,6,26.

"I am come in my Father's name..." -John 5:43.

"...The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me..." -John 10:25.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called...the Everlasting Father..." -Isaiah 9:6. See also Zech.14:9.

"...He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name..." -Hebrews 1:4.

"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named..." -Ephesians 3:14-15.

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow... And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" -Philippians 2:10-11. With Isaiah 42:8- "I am the Lord...and my glory will I not give to another...".

The Name of the Holy Ghost-

Jesus said "The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name..." -John 14:26.

Mat 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Col 1:27 "...This mystery... is Christ in you (saints that is)..." Col 3:11"...Christ is all, and in all." ." 1 Cor.12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body... and have been all made to drink into one Spirit..." 1 Co 12:27 "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."

Trinitarians are simply blinded to the fullness and the power of the name of Jesus Christ because they falsely believe the name of Jesus Christ only applies to the Son!

QUESTION I8: One of the ways that Trinitarians "write -off", or make of none effect the scriptures that command being baptized into the name of Jesus Christ, is that they claim they mean "in the authority of" Jesus Christ. How can being "buried with Him in baptism" (Rom. 6:4, Col. 2:12); or being baptized to "put on Christ" (Gal 3:27) possibly, scripturally, only mean "in the authority of Jesus"?

I8. The three verses that you have sited are not referring to water baptism. This is where your confusion is coming in. All three are referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:5

5for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

NASU

More private interpretation. There is nothing in the verse you quoted that determines anything about the verses I quoted being about Spirit baptism and not water baptism.

Now let's look at what the scriptures declare because rather than talking about doing it in lip service, we Oneness actually do search the scriptures and bring them all into harmony.

First off, the scripture says-

Eph 4:4 There is… 5 …one baptism

John expounds on this thought-

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR WITNESS IN EARTH, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three AGREE IN ONE. [ie- Eph 4:4-5 There is… one baptism

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for THIS IS THE WITNESS OF GOD WHICH HE HATH TESTIFIED OF HIS SON.

10 HE THAT BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD HATH THE WITNESS IN HIMSELF: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

In other words, if God felt it necessary to witness of His Son through water, blood and Spirit, for us to say it takes any less is to make God a liar, because that is what God has declared is necessary. Those who believe receive the witness of all three in them- blood = repentance, water = water baptism in Jesus name, Spirit = Holy Spirit baptism as on the day of Pentecost.

Jesus said-

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh US to fulfil ALL righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Furthermore the scripture says this-

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

You talk about harmonizing all the scriptures but won't do it. I'm going to do it here for you. Romans 10:16-18 says the sound of the preachers of the gospel went out into all the world. The bible also teaches this-

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. This gospel went out into all the world in the following similitudes-

Death/Repentance- ADAM, Burial/Water Baptism- NOAH, Resurrection/Spirit (=life)- ABRAHAM.

Rom 5:14 …death reigned from Adam…

1 Cor 15:21 …since by man came death...

22 For as in Adam all die,

1 Pet 3:20 …God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved BY WATER.

21 THE LIKE FIGURE WHEREUNTO EVEN BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US… (Since water baptism saves, then Acts 4:10-12 applies here- Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel... the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth... 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED.)

Gal 3:14 …the blessing of Abraham (came) through Jesus Christ; that we might receive… the Spirit... (Rom 8:10 …the Spirit is life...)

Death/Repentance- PASSOVER, Burial/Water Baptism- RED SEA, Resurrection/Spirit (=life)- represented by THE WRITING OF THE LAW.

Exo 12:3 …all the congregation… shall take to them every man a lamb…

13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. (With- 1 Cor 5:7 …Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:)

1 Cor 10:1 …all our fathers were under the cloud, and all PASSED THROUGH THE SEA;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud AND IN THE SEA;…

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

6 Now these things were our examples,

(Two baptisms. Water baptized in the Sea, but no mention of a Trinity is made here- only Moses and Jesus Christ. At least Trinitarians haven't attempted to make Moses one of the members of the Trinity over this!)

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion,

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Death/Repentance- SACRIFICES, Burial/Water Baptism- BRAZEN LAVER, Resurrection/Spirit (=life)- THE HOLY OF HOLIES.

Heb 10:1 For the law… a shadow of good things to come… with those sacrifices which they offered...

10 …we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

(And Heb 9:13-14).

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,

Exo 30:18 Thou shalt also make a laver of brass… and thou shalt put water therein…

20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar…

With-

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way…

22 Let us draw near … having our bodies washed with pure water.

With-

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present,

In harmonizing these scriptures as a foundation and clear teachings of the elements of obedience of the gospel, it is clear that the three scriptures I quoted are very much so talking about water baptism and not Spirit baptism as you have postulated according to your private interpretation. In every instance of the patterns of the gospel, which were the sound that went out into all the earth, and including the actual "gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, and the Acts 2:38 new testament summary of obedience to it, there are consistently three distinct and separate, though agreeing in one, elements that bear record of one whole plan- blood, water and Spirit!

Jesus' death was no more the same event than was His burial. The brazen altar, the golden laver, and the holy of holy were separate and distinct. The death of Adam that passed on all men, the flood in Noah's day wherein souls were saved by water being a type of water baptism, and the promise of the Spirit given to Abraham were likewise distinct and separate events. Same with the Exodus from Egypt- Passover, being baptized through crossing the Red Sea wherein the old slave masters were washed away, and then receiving the law were all separate and distinct events. Each had explicit elements that foreshadowed, according to scripture, distinct and separate elements of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection which we are to obey through repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism which together equal the one baptism which is synonymous with the adoption of us as sons (born again) after the pattern of God's testimony of Jesus' Sonship.

With these scriptures in mind, the interpretation of Romans 6:3-4 and Col. 2:12- "buried with Him in baptism" (Rom. 6:4, Col. 2:12); and Gal. 3:27- being baptized to "put on Christ" becomes clear as day that the baptism by which we are BURIED WITH Jesus by baptism in, is the baptism of water, not of Spirit. The Spirit baptism is rather that which is the separate and distinct type of Jesus' resurrection-

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall (future tense) be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

As I pointed out previously-

Even John the Baptist taught baptism into Jesus, although he had not yet received the revelation of the name, as the Apostles did-

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins… 7 …saying, There cometh ONE mightier than I after me,

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

And then there is also Paul's words in 1 Cor 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

Here Paul is talking about water baptism, unless you believe that Paul and the disciples baptized people with the Holy Ghost! On that thought, every example of water baptism is something that we do. This is a major distinction between water and spirit Baptisms. Anything that implies something we do, as foreshadowed in each and every one of the events I've outlined above, is an obvious indicator of water baptism.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

In contrast, Holy Ghost baptism is something God does in us, as also foreshadowed in each and every one of the events I've outlined above- so we can't "be baptized in the Spirit in the name of Jesus Christ" because we can't do anything, nor can anyone else, (other than pray, and make ourselves available) to bring upon that gift which is seen and heard.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God.

You cannot command Holy Ghost baptism by the human will, or the gift would be of the will of man, and not of God. Since we can change our will about how water baptism is administered, anytime we are told to be baptized in a certain way, it is about what we are able to do, and the proper way we should perform it, which in reference to baptism, can only be about water baptism.

Again in 1 Cor. 1:13-15, no mention is made of any Trinity whatsoever, but names are mentioned, and Christ is the name that is the subject name above all. It is Christ that is undivided, not a supposed "Trinity". It is Christ that was crucified, not a supposed Trinity. Therefore, it was Christ that is the name that Paul was referring to when he made it clear they were not baptized in Paul's name.

Your interpretation would not lend a single bit of harmony to any of these scriptures referring to water baptism, but would throw them all into utter disharmony and chaos. Only the name of Jesus Christ brings these scriptures, and all others on water baptism, into harmony.

So once again your doctrine is clearly demonstrated as being scripturally bankrupt, and built on nothing more than your personal opinion of what at best is actually only implied in scripture. It is the Oneness Apostolic doctrine that actually does harmonize all scripture, rightly dividing the word in deed and in truth, and which also harmonizes with early church history.

QUESTION I9: Can you show me even one Biblically stated purpose for being baptized "into" the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? Or are those who do so, strictly scripturally speaking, just getting wet?

I9. Water baptism is an outward symbol of the inward reality of baptism by the Holy Spirit. When someone is baptized they are being publicly identified with the Only True God. Water baptism is for those who are already saved.

Still no scripture stating your doctrine, just more personal opinion demonstrated previously as being spoiled through worldly philosophy and vain deceit.

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...

9 FULL WELL YE REJECT THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KEEP YOUR OWN TRADITION.

For it is written-

Acts 2:38 ...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...

1 Pet 3:20 ...in the days of Noah... souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

Acts 22:16 And... arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Mark 7:11 But ye say,

"Water baptism is an outward symbol of the inward reality of baptism by the Holy Spirit. When someone is baptized they are being publicly identified with the Only True God. Water baptism is for those who are already saved."

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect THROUGH YOUR TRADITION, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

QUESTION J1: Is that what you believe?

J1. Yes this is what I believe and I would compare Romans 10:13 and Acts 22:16

My question was-

There is only one other "purpose" that I've heard Trinitarians give for being baptized "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." And of course, I have not heard what scripture they use for this position. Maybe you could provide that scripture for me. But they say baptism is for the purpose of making a public confession of their faith."

And of course once again, you've provided no scripture that states your opinion. You referred to only Acts 22:16 and Rom 10:13.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This is where Ananias tells Paul what Jesus had told Paul he MUST do would be told him. So Paul is told to "be baptized and wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord," which name Jesus had told him was "Jesus."

And of course, I've given lots of scripture that show that water baptism is precisely for just that-

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Rom 10:13 is one of those verses folks seem to love to chop off before it gets to the obedient part-

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel.

Which brings us right back to Acts 2:38 and obeying the gospel by dieing out to ourselves in repentance, being buried with Jesus Christ in baptism for remission of sins, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost which is life.

QUESTION J3 Mr. Cook, is this the public confession you have made, and wish to continue to be party to?

I can only speak for myself. If you wish to know my position further feel free to watch an 8 hour debate with the church of Christ that is on my website. www.unchained.cc

Another evasive answer and offer to send me on a wild goose chase, since you really don't answer the question based on the points I made leading up to the question. I have no choice than to believe that you don't have any contention with the points I made as being the Trinitarian confession of (lack of) faith (in Jesus name), and you don't have any scripture that you can quote here before "the court" in defense of yourself in light of those points.

QUESTION J4 Is this the confession we would be expected to make if your proselytizing us into your Trinitarian faith is successful?

n/a

QUESTION J5 Is this the public confession your public debate with Mr. Bernard was intended to make us accountable to?

n/a/ like I said if you want to know my position read the 1689 Confession or watch the debate.

Sounds like another plea to history in the lack of scripture to me. What I had been asking for was scripture. I will take this answer as that you don't have or need scripture, as you have your own historical confession.

I believe that concludes the questions that you have sent me. I would be very surprised if you post my response on your website. In fact if you check out the quotes that I have listed in David Bernard's book no have no other choice that to repent if you truly love Christ.

I guess if I felt as you, that your extra-biblical interpretations and opinions, based on pagan polytheistic mindsets, and making the word of God of none affect, were more authoritative than quoted scripture, then maybe I would.

But obviously I believe quite differently than you. I believe this, and believing it, I also put it into practice-

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, AND RECEIVE WITH MEEKNESS THE ENGRAFTED WORD, which is able to save your souls.

Thank You and good day,

Pastor Gene Cook, Jr.

I have invited Bishop Trout to a debate on the subject of "Tongues". I have not yet heard from him. Maybe you can let him know that I am anxiously awaiting his reply.

If he's reading along, I imagine you've just told him as well as I could.

Now, about your opening statement-

I have taken the time to answer your questions below. I have to admit that when I received this inquiry, that was also sent to many other pastors of Reformed Baptist churches, I was concerned about your motives. I have since prayed for you and believe it to be a good thing to answer your questions. However, I need to make some thing very clear from the outset. That is, I cannot "convince you" of the triunity of God's nature only God the Holy Spirit can accomplish that. Thus I have prayed that God would be pleased in His Sovereignty to do just that.

I told you I had some questions of your Trinity doctrine, and I honestly gave you an opportunity to provide scripture for your position. I also told you that I cc'd members of both our fellowships for the sake of accountability. I must say that I was a little surprised with your response to my motives!

1 Cor 13:4 Charity… 5 …thinketh no evil;

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Let me explain that by inviting members of your and my fellowship as witnesses it was my hope that we both would be as open and honest with each other and with the scriptures as possible. By inviting the caliber of people I invited, I had hoped to maintain a high level of integrity, depth of coverage of the points, and to keep either of us from not taking the conversation seriously, considering the amount of collective influence represented by this group. I assumed all that was inherent in saying "for the sake of accountability". Maybe that means something different to different people. I surely didn't think that would be taken negatively, but actually I thought it would be perceived positively, giving you an open forum to present your case honestly and in the light of day.

John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I do realize you don't know me, and may have underestimated the depth of what I was requesting of you, and ready to present to you. Now that you're getting to know me a little bit, I would think, that if you are a man of integrity, that before going on you will first want to go back over each of the questions I originally sent you and at least attempt with somewhat more earnest, to provide some scriptures that state your opinion without putting extra-Biblical words or thoughts in God's mouth. Or, failing that, you would bring yourself to apologize to David Bernard for accusing him numerous times of doing nothing more than that which you can't seem to keep yourself from doing even when specifically asked not to. That doesn't seem to much to ask of a man of integrity, so I am offering you an opportunity. Whether you take it as such, and what you do with this opportunity, is of course entirely up to you, but whatever it is you do will be witnessed.

When I listened to your debate with David Bernard, and noticed how you disliked the concept of someone putting words in someone else's mouth, I honestly thought optimistically that you would appreciate being shown if you were doing the same thing, just as you showed the same courtesy to David Bernard.

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Maybe I was and am wrong in my optimism about you, and thinking we could and can have an honest and open dialog. But at least I believe I owe it to you to give you the opportunity to show your attitude along those lines, and present your case, rather than prejudging you. I must say though, that so far, you haven't demonstrated to me any compulsion whatsoever to keep yourself from putting words in God's mouth, even though you dislike it when you feel someone is doing that to you.

Maybe next time, if there is a next time, you could show me you are able to correct that, and you actually are able to quote scripture that says in and of itself what you believe, without putting words in God's mouth, or be honest with us that such scriptures simply do not exist, but you believe in certain extra-biblical doctrines regardless of whether or not it is specifically stated or merely implied in the Bible.

One of the real benefits of this type of conversation is that one has the complete control to make sure every word is correct the first time. And I have not asked for any immediate answers, but rather complete, honest, and open answers, so there is no imposed time constraint here whatsoever as far as I'm concerned- take a month or more to reply if need be. But an acknowledgement of such a lead-time might be the courteous thing to do.

Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Tom Raddatz

Please continue in Cook's Final Response