Main |
Real Conversations On TheOneness of God vs. TrinityWhy any Distinction? ((If the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are all identical, one and the same, then why is there any such distinction in the Bible at all? Why not just say "God" or "Jesus" everywhere?)) The answer to this is much the same as- Why did God go by a multitude of names in the Old Testament? The answer is because each name described a different ATTRIBUTE of God. God is not "just" the Father who created the world, and then sat back to watch it's progress. God is not "just" the Son who gave His life to redeem mankind back to Himself (2 Cor. 5:19) and then left man to work out his life alone after that. God is not "just" the Holy Ghost who comes to dwell in the human heart to be that Helper without which man cannot live a life of overcoming sin. God is, as we say- the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and the Spirit in Sanctification. Jesus was the Creator: Joh 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." Jesus is our Redeemer: Eph 1:7 "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" The Spirit is the Sanctifier, and His name is Jesus: 2Th 2:13 "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" 2Co 13:5 "Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 1Co 6:19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you...? 1Co 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all ... 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: SO ALSO IS CHRIST." Is God not a Spirit that fills heaven and earth? Is it not the same God who touches a heart with His Spirit in deepest Africa, and at the same moment in time is there to impart a living soul when a child is born in the frigid Arctic? Are those separate persons? Does God have to be a Separate Person to be, to act, or to do in more than one place at a time? Certainly NOT! Jer 23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? 24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD." You gave the answer yourself- "Jesus is there in the flesh" It was not the humanity of Jesus that was God. It was the Spirit that dwelled within Jesus that was God. Therefore, Jesus in the flesh was just that- the humanity of Christ. Can any man "SEE" a Spirit? No. Therefore, as the scripture says- Matt. 3:16 "he saw the Spirit of God descending LIKE a dove." Whenever something is described as "Like" in scripture, it means "similar to." It is trying to describe a spiritual event in natural language by using similarities. This is merely an instance of a "theophany." Are you familiar with that term? This was also simply the fulfillment of a prophecy given to John the Baptist (John 1:32-33) in order to recognize Jesus. To use this event to prove separate persons, you would have to prove that each separate person of God can only do one thing at a time per person. And again, the bible itself does not SAY these were examples of separate persons. Nor do the apostles anywhere say they understood this event to be evidence of separate persons. ((Was He referring to Himself as His own son? And was he well pleased with himself?)) Let me ask you this- can a man love his own flesh? The Bible says he can- Ephesians 5:28 "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For NO MAN EVER YET HATED HIS OWN FLESH; BUT NOURISHETH AND CHERISHETH IT, even as the Lord the church..." So why should it not be possible for God the everlasting Spirit to love (cherish) the Son of God in the flesh, who is His own body? ((I am not getting this from some pagan source, I'm simply reading the Bible.)) I agree you are not. My point was to look to Biblically stated descriptions for the "differences" rather than the works of pagan philosophers. That is why I quoted 1 Corinthians 12:4-6,11- "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are DIFFERENCES OF ADMINISTRATIONS, but the same Lord. 6 And there are DIVERSITIES OF OPERATIONS, but it is THE SAME God which worketh all in all... 11 But ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT..." Who is all in all? Col. 3:11 "CHRIST IS ALL, and in all." Not a Trinity- Christ. Col. 2:9 "For IN HIM DWELLETH ALL the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 AND YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all..." You see- If we use scripture to define the differences, we come up with "differences of administrations" and "diversities of operations" yet- "ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT" For another example, let's take 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." We might ask "there are three WHAT that bear record?" But, that verse explained itself already. There are three that bear record, period. We are made in God's image, are we not? Are we Trinity's of Persons? No, we have a soul, body, and mind, but each one of those are "members" of the one person. Each one of those "elements" (as you say) testify of the one "person" in a different way, but none of them are separate persons in us, are they? Does the scripture concur? 1 Corinthians 12:12 "For AS THE BODY IS ONE, AND HATH MANY MEMBERS, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: SO ALSO IS CHRIST... 14 For the body is not one member, but many." Do you see that? "The body has many members... so is CHRIST!" Not the Trinity, but Christ! Many members, each member having separate titles and functions, but only one individual person, and that person has a name, and in this instance it is Jesus Christ! Does that help? Keep the questions coming! And may God Bless! by TomR. Please continue with the real conversations on the subject of Oneness vs. Trinity. Different Persons in the body of Christ Definition of Oneness Pentecostal Satan's Greatest Hoax (226 Questions Disproving the Trinitarian Doctrine) Return to the preface for the studies on the doctrine of the Oneness of God in the name of Jesus Christ.
|