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SATAN'S GREATEST HOAX or 226 questions PROVING the doctrine of the TRINITY to be UNSCRIPTURAL! Question 56- God is one, Christ is all, and you are complete in Him. ((Your next verses (Gal. 3:20, Col. 3:11, and Col. 2:10) explain nothing but your ability to create any teaching you want by melding a few verses together with the exact words you need to form your own mixed up belief.)) Gal 3:20 "...GOD IS ONE." Col 3:11 "...CHRIST IS ALL, and in all." Col 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 FOR IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily. 10 AND YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM." QUESTION #56) Rather than give me a railing accusation, will you please do me a favor and show me how a Trinitarian would interpret these verses using scriptural cross-references as you have promised you were going to do, OK? To me they are most self explanatory, and clearly, definitely show the fallacy of the Trinitarian position. Questions 57 through 62- Jesus = Father = the Holy Spirit = heresy or scripture? ((...It is heretical, though, to say that Jesus is Father, Son and Holy Spirit - this is no where taught in the Bible - as we have just seen by your great display of "Biblical evidence" that we now covered. You have to try a little bit harder,)) OK, I will try harder. How about this... JESUS IS THE FATHER- Joh 14:7 "IF YE HAD KNOWN ME, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO: AND FROM HENCEFORTH YE KNOW HIM, AND HAVE SEEN HIM. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Joh 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Joh 8:19 "Then said they unto him, WHERE IS THY FATHER? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: IF YE HAD KNOWN *ME*, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO... 24 I said therefore unto you, that YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: **FOR IF YE BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE, YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS**. 25 Then said they unto him, WHO ART THOU? And Jesus saith unto them, EVEN THE SAME THAT I SAID UNTO YOU from the beginning... 27 THEY UNDERSTOOD NOT THAT HE SPAKE TO THEM OF THE FATHER." QUESTION #57) How much stronger words would Jesus have to use than- "If ye had known me, ye should have known my father also... If ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins... He spake to them of the father." Before you would be convinced that Jesus Christ IS the Father, and to believe this is essential to your salvation? What else would Jesus have to say? QUESTION #58) If Jesus says "...my father... If ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins... He spake to them of the father..." and you tell me "It is heretical... to say that Jesus is (the) Father" where does that put you in relation to Christ, and salvation? QUESTION #59) Can you show me any scripture where Jesus, just as specifically, says, I will die in my sins if I don't believe that He and the Father are Separate Persons? Or that they are a Trinity? JESUS IS THE HOLY GHOST- Col 1:26 "Even the MYSTERY WHICH HATH BEEN HID from ages and from generations, but now is made MANIFEST TO HIS SAINTS: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory:" 1 Jo 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come (present tense- look it up!) in the flesh is of God: 3 And EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSETH NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME (present tense- look it up!) IN THE FLESH IS NOT OF GOD: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 Jo 1:7 "For many DECEIVERS are entered into the world, WHO CONFESS NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME (present tense) IN THE FLESH. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." 2 Co 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU, EXCEPT YE BE REPROBATES?" QUESTION #60) How much stronger words would scripture have to use than "Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" Before you would be convinced that Jesus Christ IS the Holy Ghost in the believers, and to believe this is essential to your salvation? What else would scripture have to say to convince you that the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ? QUESTION #61) If scripture says "Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" and you tell me "It is heretical... to say that Jesus is (the) Holy Spirit" where does that put you in relation to salvation? QUESTION #62) Can you show me any scripture at all that, just as specifically, says I will be a deceiver, anti-christ, reprobate, or not of God if I don't believe that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Separate Persons? Questions 63 through 64- Commandment or vain tradition of men? Next, what we are discussing here, I think you'll agree, isn't JUST about comparing the doctrines of Oneness and Trinity, is it? But it is also about our respective methods of Biblical interpretation. Allow me to demonstrate how to recognize the incorrect method of Biblical interpretation... Satan in the garden gives us the prime example of the incorrect method... "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, YEA, HATH GOD SAID, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye may not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" - Genesis 3:1-5. "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, TRANSFORMING THEMSELVES into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; FOR SATAN HIMSELF IS TRANSFORMED INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed AS the ministers of righteousness..." - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. What Satan did here (even though he quoted the word of God), was to lay aside the commandment of God, and preach his personal interpretation of what God said. The problem is, Satan's interpretation is SPECIFICALLY CONTRADICTED by the expressly stated Word of God. Jesus had the same problem to contend with, and expresses exactly what that problem is... "Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, WHY DO THY DISCIPLES TRANSGRESS THE TRADITION OF THE ELDERS? For they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, WHY DO YE ALSO TRANSGRESS THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD BY YOUR TRADITION? For God Commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father and mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father and mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or mother, he shall be free. THUS HAVE YE MADE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT BY YOUR TRADITION. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips: but their heart is far from me. But IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN" Matthew 15:1-9. "Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, WHY WALK NOT THY DISCIPLES ACCORDING TO THE TRADITION OF THE ELDERS...? He answered and said unto them...Laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do...FULL WELL YE REJECT THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KEEP YOUR TRADITION...MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED: AND MANY SUCH LIKE THINGS DO YE"- Mark 7:6-13. Now, let's look at how this pattern PERFECTLY, AND EXACTLY FITS my contentions against your tradition of the Trinity... "Then ((Pilgrim)) asked him, WHY WALK NOT THY DISCIPLES ACCORDING TO THE ((CREEDS (Nicene, Athanasian, etc.))) OF THE ELDERS...? ((TomR)) answered and said...Laying aside the commandment of God **The Lord our GOD IS ONE Lord -Mk 12:29, Christ is all -Col. 3:11, and ye are complete in him -Col 2:10**, ye hold the tradition of men, as ((Within the nature of the ONE true God, there are three separate persons... Trinity)): and many other such like things ye do...FULL WELL YE REJECT THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KEEP YOUR TRADITION... MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED: AND MANY SUCH LIKE THINGS DO YE"- Mark 7:6-13. So then, let's ask these questions- QUESTION #63) What specific commandment, as directly quoted from the scriptures, can you possibly insert that I am accused of laying aside? QUESTION #64) If the Trinity is only stated in Creeds, and not scripture, HOW IS the Trinity doctrine NOT MERELY A TRADITION OF MEN of which Christ says- "makes the word of God OF NONE EFFECT? Questions 65 through 68- Manifestations, Operations, Administrations. ((You speak of "manifestations", "operations", or "administrations" of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, but the Bible never uses these terms to describe them...)) QUESTION #65) Although the Bible NEVER calls the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit "Separate Persons," does the Bible NOT use the words "operation," "manifest(ations)," or "administrations" in reference to the offices or works of the Lord? Psa 28:5 "Because they regard not THE WORKS of the LORD, nor THE OPERATION of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up." Isa 5:11 "Woe unto them that... 12 ...regard not THE WORK OF THE LORD, neither consider THE OPERATION of his hands. 13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE..." Joh 1:31 "And I knew him not: but that he should be made MANIFEST to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water." Joh 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I WILL love him, and will MANIFEST MYSELF to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt MANIFEST thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Rom 10:20 "But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I WAS MADE MANIFEST unto them that asked not after me." Rom 16:25 "...JESUS CHRIST, according to the revelation of the mystery... 26 "But now IS MADE MANIFEST..., made known..." 1 Cor 12:5 And there are differences of ADMINISTRATIONS, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of OPERATIONS, but it is the same God which worketh all in all... 12... SO ALSO IS CHRIST." 1 Tim 3:16 "And WITHOUT CONTROVERSY great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Pet 1:19 "...Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who VERILY... WAS MANIFEST in these last times for you." 1 Jon 3:1 "Behold... the Father... 5 And ye know that HE WAS MANIFESTED to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 1 Jon 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFESTED, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 Jon 5:7 "For there are three that BEAR RECORD in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three ARE ONE." QUESTION #66) Pilgrim, you yourself said- "When Trinitarians speak of God (I shall remind you) they refer to God as only ONE, but who *MANIFESTS* Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit." If you meant these manifestations were Separate Persons, why didn't you say Separate Persons? If you meant "manifest Themselves" why did you say- "manifests Himself," are you trying to confuse us? If you use the phrase- "manifests Himself" why are you so repulsed by Oneness who use the same terminology? And why are you so dead-set determined to incorporate extra-biblical terminology to define the God whom you worship if you believe in the Bible as you claim? QUESTION #67) Why do Trinitarians IGNORE the words and definitions the Bible SPECIFICALLY USES, and opt instead for words and definitions the Bible NEVER uses? It is because- laying aside the commandment of God... "Holy One" (48 x's in the Bible), ye hold the tradition of men- "Trinity" (never once in the Bible), making the commandment of God (The Lord our God is one Lord) of none effect through your tradition. ((Do you not also, like I do, use the word "Incarnation" - that's not in the Bible.)) The word incarnation is used to "symbolize" in a word a very specifically stated Biblical event- Mat 1:18 "Now THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST WAS ON THIS WISE: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, SHE WAS FOUND WITH CHILD OF THE HOLY GHOST... 1:20 ...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost... 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US." This, and corresponding scriptures, are what is specifically referred to in the definition of "incarnation." If your understanding or perception of the meaning of the word "incarnation" differs from this and similarly expressed scripture, then no, I wouldn't believe in "your" definition of "incarnation." According to Merriam-Webster a word is "a pronounceable sound or combination of sounds that EXPRESSES AND SYMBOLIZES AN IDEA." Biblical definition of "word"- "Strong's reference number: 3056, Greek: LOGOS, Definition: something said (including the thought)... A TOPIC (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive... a computation; spec. (with the art. of John) THE DIVINE EXPRESSION (i.e. Christ)" -Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. QUESTION #68) Is it scripturally acceptable to add words (thoughts, ideas) to God's word in order to formulate doctrine? Pro 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Rev 22:18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book." 1 Tim 1:3 "As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine." 2 Tim 3:16 "All SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works." There are, it is true, other words that are not found in scripture that we use. However, each and every one of them has a SPECIFICALLY STATED scriptural doctrine, concept, idea, etc. For example, the following (English) words are not found in scripture either, but their concepts are most clearly and explicitly stated in scripture- BIBLE- "...What thou seest, write in a book (biblios)..." -Revelation 1:11. "Bible... from Greek biblion, pl. of biblios... a book" -Webster's Dictionary. RAPTURE- "The state of being carried away with joy, love, etc...." -Webster's. "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye... we shall be changed..." -1 Corinthians 15:52. "Then WE... SHALL BE CAUGHT UP... in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..." -1 Thessalonians 4:17. ((How about "verbal plenary" - are those words in the Bible?)) As I've pointed out to you before- "verbal- 1. Of, relating to, or associated with WORDS." "plenary- 1. COMPLETE IN ALL RESPECTS; unlimited or full. 2. Fully attended by all qualified members." "inspiration- ... 5. Theology. DIVINE GUIDANCE OR INFLUENCE EXERTED DIRECTLY on the mind and soul of humankind." (Quotes from the American Heritage Dictionary Scripturally stated, it means this- Proverbs 30:5 "EVERY WORD of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 ADD THOU NOT UNTO HIS WORDS, LEST he reprove thee, and THOU BE FOUND A LIAR." 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL good works." Questions 69 through 73- The word Trinity is not in the Bible. (( Lastly, you pick on the word "Trinity" because it's not used in Scripture, well neither is "Oneness"!... The issue is whether or not the terminology expresses a Biblical teaching. My belief is that Trinitarian terminology does, while Oneness terminology doesn't.)) QUESTION #69) If the Bible is complete (which it is), and we are not to add to it's words (concepts, ideas), why does the Bible not somewhere EXPRESSLY STATE the doctrine of the Trinity IF IT BE TRULY A SCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE? QUESTION #70) If, as you say concerning cross-referencing of scripture- "any cultist or ordinary pagan can do that and form their own belief" how is it that I can quote scripture that expressly states the "God is one/Christ is all" doctrine, but the same cannot be done for the Trinity doctrine of Separate Persons in the godhead? QUESTION #71) Since Trinitarians can cross-reference NO scriptures that expressly state the Trinity doctrine even though - "any cultist or ordinary pagan can do that and form their own belief," how is the Trinity doctrine then NOT EVEN AS BIBLICALLY FEASIBLE AS "ANY CULTIST or ordinary pagan('s)" religious beliefs, and therefore TOTALLY UNTENABLE? QUESTION #72) Since the Trinity doctrine of three Separate Persons is a) NOT expressly stated in scripture; b) Has NO descriptive terminology found in scripture; and c) CANNOT be expressed by merely cross-referencing scripture; HOW MUCH LESS BIBLICAL WOULD A DOCTRINE HAVE TO BE BEFORE YOU WOULD CONSIDER IT UNSCRIPTURAL? What else does "unscriptural" mean to you people?? QUESTION #73) Since the Trinity is, at best, IMPLIED in scripture (ignoring the fact that it is explicitly contradicted in scripture for a moment), should any other, or all doctrines that are merely implied in scripture be considered as valid as the Trinity doctrine? And if not, why not? Question 74- John 1:1 the Word was God. (("In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1). In your response to this verse, you refuse to deal with it as a verse that speaks of a Triune God, but use your erroneous argumentation to skip around it.)) Psa 33:6 "By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of THEM BY THE BREATH of his mouth... 9 For HE SPAKE, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast." Gen 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him..." QUESTION #74) Since we are made in God's image, where does the Bible, contradictory to that image, say that God's "word" is different than a man's word? Is my "word" a Separate Person from me, even if it were to be miraculously made flesh, and I was to dwell within my word? Laying aside the commandment of God (the word of the LORD... THE BREATH of his mouth... For HE SPAKE...), ye hold the tradition of men (speaks of a triune God... that the "SON" preexisted... as a person)... Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition... Making the word of God (God created man in his own image) of NONE EFFECT by your tradition, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED... -Mk 7:6-13. Please continue with the 226 questions disproving the doctrine of the Trinity. QUESTION 75 Return to the Table of Contents for the 226 questions Return to the preface for the studies on the doctrine of the Oneness of God in the name of Jesus Christ. Read real conversations on the topic of Oneness vs. Trinity. |