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SATAN'S GREATEST HOAX or 226 questions PROVING the doctrine of the TRINITY to be UNSCRIPTURAL! Questions 201 through 204- The Trinity and the beginning of the Roman Catholic Church. "For more than 30 years THE NICENE CREED WAS ARGUED OVER, REWORDED, FOUGHT OVER, CATHOLIC MEN WERE KILLED, DEPOSED AND ANATHEMATIZED. (Duchesne, pp. 270-302). Catholic bishop murdered Catholic bishop. Hilary had bishops deposed. Greek and Latin words were changed, scrutinized, and meanings were sought. (HOJ Brown, p. 127). some bishops were threatened, beaten and blackballed by men like Hilary and Valens. (Duchesne, pp. 240, 241, 295). Note, Jewish and Gentile Apostolics (Oneness) of Jerusalemic faith, Acts two, WERE NOT INVOLVED IN THIS... Many Roman bishops were ditheists, believers in the Father and in the Son, but did not recognize the Holy Ghost as the Third Person. (Duchesne, pp. 278-282). As of February 15, AD 360, THREE DECADES AFTER NICEA, THERE WAS NO REAL TRINITY DOCTRINE. (Duchesne, pp. 246, 293). As late as ca. AD 363, following the Council of Alexandria, Athanasius declared to Emperor Jovian that the Creed of Nicea needed to be completed, so far as concerned the Holy Spirit. (Socrates, iv. 12; Sozomen, vi. 12; Duchesne, p. 293). This implies that at Nicea in AD 325, the Trinity theory had NOT been completed. Why? THE NICENE COUNCIL HAD ONLY PRODUCED DITHEISM. Here we can surmise many things. At this late date (AD 363-366), the Catholics had great difficulty with their EVOLVING Trinity hypothesis. One difficulty was, 'MOST CATHOLIC BISHOPS THEMSELVES DID NOT WANT THE TRINITY IDEA.' THEY DIDN'T FULLY BELIEVE IN IT! Additionally, they were afraid of it. 'Amongst those persons who were willing to grant to the Son likeness absolutely and in essence to the Father, and even to accept, with regard to the first two Persons of the Trinity, the term consubstantial, THERE WERE SOME WHO REFUSED TO MAKE THE SAME CONCESSION AS TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. (L. Duchesne, p. 293)... It was following the council of Constantinople, AD 381, and during the Council of Chalcedon, October 8, 451, that to Roman Catholics the Holy Ghost was by their decrees made the Third Person in their Trinity." Rev. M. M. Arnold, D.D., Th.D., Nicaea and the Nicene Council, pg. 42. QUESTION #201) So where and how does history support your hypothesis, Pilgrim, that- ((Trinitarianism didn't pop up all of a sudden at the time these creeds were written, but were in existence the whole time.))?? The Trinity sure didn't pop up all of a sudden. It had to be refined by pagan philosophers, sold to a pagan Emperor, and enforced by a pagan Imperial army!!! QUESTION #202) So who were these Trinitarians that "were in existence the whole time", and where were they during the time of the first councils that had to be improved upon? Why didn't they just speak up and quote the scriptures that in and of themselves clearly and specifically stated the Godhead to be a Trinity of persons the way James did in the book of Acts? QUESTION #203) If the Trinity was in existence the whole time, why did it take all these councils, and all the philosophic pagan terminology, and all the bloodshed that ensued because of the councils to define the Trinity doctrine? "After the newly organized Roman Catholic Church was thus set in order with A DECISION BY IT'S NEW HEAD CONSTANTINE, THE ROMAN EMPEROR, THAT THE TRINITY AND THE TRINITARIAN FORMULA ONLY SHOULD BE USED, all who disagreed with this policy were branded as heretics, and MANY OF THEIR LEADERS WERE BANISHED, SUFFERING CRUEL PUNISHMENTS... We invite the reader to compare this first council of the Roman Catholic Church with that of the first apostolic church, which... God had His way, and they were in one accord; the Holy Ghost made the decision. In this first Roman Catholic Council at Nicea, (325 AD), less than three hundred years later, another important decision was to be made; but IT WAS MADE WITHOUT GOD, WITHOUT LOVE, AND WITHOUT UNITY OF SPIRIT... this church meeting was DISGRACED BY A FIST FIGHT, AND THAT DECISION WAS MADE BY AN UNGODLY EMPEROR who had made only a profession of Christianity and that for political gain, without having been baptized. WE ARE MADE TO WONDER WHY PEOPLE WOULD HOLD TO A DOCTRINE WHICH CAME FROM SUCH A SOURCE." -S.C. McClain, Highlights in Church History, pages 27-28. QUESTION #204) Pilgrim, by defending, and siding with the decisions made by the unruly, ungodly men of these councils and the persecutions which followed, HOW ARE YOU NOT A PARTAKER WITH THEM? Act 7:52 "Which of the prophets have not YOUR fathers persecuted? and THEY HAVE SLAIN THEM WHICH SHEWED before of the coming of THE JUST ONE; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers" Questions 205 through 206- The Pagan/Christian Philosophers. QUESTION #205) So where did these so-called Christian philosophers get their Trinity doctrine from if not directly from the scriptures? "Numenius of Apamea (fl. c. 175 AD), a Syrian pagan philosopher, and one of great influence upon the Alexandrian Trinitarians, BOASTED THAT HE HAD GONE BACK "TO THE FOUNTAINHEAD OF PLATO, SOCRATES AND PYTHAGORAS, TO THE ANCIENT TRADITIONS OF THE BRAHMINS, MAGI, EGYPTIANS... AND HAD RESTORED TO THE SCHOOLS THE FORGOTTEN DOCTRINE OF THREE GODS.' Bigg calls Numenius the founder (along with the Catholic Clement of Alexandria) of Neo-Platonism... According to Bigg, 'Numenius... first personified the Arch-Idea of Plato or spoke of it as God.' Numenius wrote concerning his doctrine of three Gods that the first was Mind (Nous), simple and changeless, good and wise. Being changeless, MIND CANNOT CREATE, AND SO THERE IS A SECOND GOD, DERIVED FROM HIM, CALLED THE CREATOR. THIS SON IS NO LONGER SIMPLE LIKE THE FATHER, BUT IS TWOFOLD. A PART OF THE SON IS INCORPORATED IN THE THINGS HE HAD MADE, AND BECOMES THE THIRD GOD, THE WORLD SPIRIT. THIS IS THE TYPE OF PAGAN PHILOSOPHY PREVALENT IN THE SECOND CENTURY, WHICH SPOILED THE MINDS OF SOME GENTILE CHRISTIANS... "Christian apologists who were contemporary with Numenius drew similar conclusions from the teachings of an Alexandrian Jewish philosopher, Philo Judaeus (c. 20 BC-50 AD). Philo was striving to RECONCILE Judaism and GREEK PHILOSOPHY... Philo had a form of the Logos doctrine ready-made for the Trinitarians who were to spring up in his century. He taught: 'All beings between the perfection of God and the imperfect, finite matter have their unity in, and proceed from, the divine Logos.' Thus a liberal Jewish philosopher of the priestly class in Alexandria was laying the groundwork for the false Trinitarian doctrine even before the Apostle Paul had evangelized the Greek world... "But perhaps Philo's greatest contribution to Trinitarians was his fantastic method of allegorization. This was a gnostic approach of giving HIDDEN, OR HIGHER, SECRET MEANINGS to Scripture. This was especially adopted by Clement of Alexandria, and did much to advance the trinity doctrine... (Clement's method of interpretation survived in power until the Reformation." )..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 116-118. "...The rejection of Modalism (oneness) and the recognition of Christ as the Logos forced upon the west the necessity of rising from faith to a philosophical and, in fact, a distinctively Neoplatonic dogmatic." -Dr. Adolf Harnack, History of Dogma, page 79. QUESTION #206) Why must Trinitarians resort to words and definitions which were formulated in, and adopted from pagan philosophy when the Bible specifically and emphatically warns against this? Deu 6:13 "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name. 14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; 15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth." Deu 13:1 "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Jer 10:2 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman," Col 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Question 207- Constantine- presider over the Nicene Council. QUESTION #207) And what of Constantine, the presider over the first council, the Nicene, is he a pillar of spirituality, Pilgrim? "Constantine, who treated religious questions solely from a political point of view, ASSURED UNANIMITY BY BANISHING ALL THE BISHOPS who would not sign the NEW PROFESSIONS OF FAITH. IN THIS WAY UNITY WAS ACHIEVED. It was altogether unheard of that a universal creed should be instituted solely on the authority of the emperor... Not a bishop said a single word against this monstrous thing." -Walter Nigg, The Heretics, page 102." "...How can we explain the conversion of CONSTANTINE? Actually, his conversion is questionable... The facts plainly show that he was not truly converted- not in the Biblical sense of the word. Historians admit that HIS CONVERSION WAS 'NOMINAL, even by contemporary standards.' ...AFTER HIS CONVERSION, HE COMMITTED SEVERAL MURDERS- including the murder of his own wife and son! According to the Bible 'no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him' (1 John 3:15)." -Ralph Woodrow, Babylon Mystery Religion. Questions 208 through 209- New Creeds meant old truths became heresy. QUESTION #208) Is it possible to devise a new creed by which whoever does not subscribe they are thereby heretics? What happens to all the Christians who preexisted the creeds? Are they heretics also? What do you do with them, Pilgrim? "Is there not something that proves the Trinity a superstition in the very Creed of Athanasius, and in the fact that the church has not awoke her thunders against that long ago. Let us quote part of it. 'Whosoever will be saved must hold the Catholic faith. The Catholic faith is this, -that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... Which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved...' ...the anathemas of heaven FOR THAT OF WHICH THE GOOD PEOPLE OF AN EARLIER WORLD MUST CERTAINLY HAVE HAD NO IDEA." John Miller, Is God a Trinity? pages 34-35. QUESTION #209) Why wasn't scripture alone sufficient in defending against false prophets? Why were creeds needed to formulate doctrines that weren't expressly taught in scripture, if the scriptures were already being believed and upheld? Jud 1:9 "...When contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, DURST NOT BRING AGAINST HIM A RAILING ACCUSATION, but said, THE LORD REBUKE thee." Mat 4:1 "...Jesus... tempted of the devil... 4 ...answered and said, IT IS WRITTEN.. IT IS WRITTEN... IT IS WRITTEN." Question 210- Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, etc. ((But to obliterate your false persuasions, that the early church at the time of the apostles and after were "Oneness" and not Trinitarian, I looked up some quotes for you. Let them speak for themselves:.. Clement... "Brethren, we must think of Jesus Christ as of God." Clement of Rome, Epistle to the Ephesians....)) Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp have all been determined by historians to be Monarchians (Oneness) and not Trinitarians. They never developed any such terminology as "Separate Persons" or Trinity, and that's what makes the difference. Once again allow me to remind you, Pilgrim- mentioning Father, Son, and Holy Ghost has NEVER been sole evidence of one or the other doctrine- Oneness or Trinitarian! "Dr. Adolf Harnack, the church historian, was prompted to write that the dogmatic teaching of the trinity had built a 'theory of legal factions with no more foundation in fact than the conscienceless personality of a joint stock company created by lawyers for legal purposes.' In other words, the trinity doctrine exists only on paper... No apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ ever taught such a doctrine... NONE OF THE IMMEDIATE DISCIPLES OF THE APOSTLES (E.G., CLEMENT, IGNATIUS, HERMAS, OR POLYCARP) TAUGHT SUCH A DOCTRINE... Who began such a teaching?... TRINITIES ABOUND IN THE ANCIENT, FALSE RELIGIONS..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 116-118. "Clement of Rome had warned earlier in his second epistle of putting Christ in second place" 'Brethren, WE MUST THINK OF JESUS CHRIST AS OF GOD'." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 39-48. This theology of Clement is pure Monotheistic modalism- Oneness! ((Ignatius (ca. 107 AD)... "Let us all run together as to one temple of God, as to one altar, to one Jesus Christ, who came forth from one Father and remained with One and returned to the One." (Mag. 7:2).)) I'm afraid this theology of Ignatius is pure Oneness Modalistic Monarchianism theology also, not Trinitarian, Pilgrim! "If one term must be chosen to indicate the tendency of his thought, IGNATIUS MUST BE SAID TO BE MONARCHIAN..." -Virginia Corwin (A well-known scholar), St. Ignatius and Christianity in Antioch (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1960, page 140. "Ignatius seems to have had the confidence of the apostles, for he is said to have been appointed pastor of the church at Antioch by John in 67 AD, and he succeeded Evodius, who had been appointed by Peter in 40 AD" William B. Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, page 16-17. ((Polycarp (ca. 69 -155 AD) - "O Lord God Almighty, Father of your beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ...I glorify you through the eternal and heavenly High Priest, Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom to you with Him and the Holy Spirit be glory both now and for ages to come. Amen." (The Martyrdom of Polycarp - 14:1-3))) And again, another One God preacher in the man Polycarp! "Polycarp of Smyrna (c. 69-156 AD) was another one God preacher, who overlapped what is called the Apostolic Age and the sub-Apostolic Age. He was John's disciple... It is said that the Apostle John designated Polycarp as the pastor of the church at Smyrna. Polycarp... was personally acquainted with Philip and his four daughters, who lived at Hierapolis... He was also acquainted with Ignatius, and no doubt knew many who had sat directly under the teaching of the apostles, as he had himself... "Polycarp and Ignatius had respect for one another. We know this from their correspondence. Moreover they shared the same teaching. In a letter to Polycarp, we find that Ignatius acknowledges Jesus Christ as the only God. In one place he writes- '...and expect HIM, WHO IS ABOVE ALL TIME, ETERNAL, INVISIBLE, THOUGH FOR OUR SAKES MADE VISIBLE; IMPALPABLE, AND IMPASSABLE, YET FOR US SUBJECTED TO SUFFERINGS; enduring all manner of ways for our salvation.' -Polycarp 1:15... "TO IGNATIUS AND POLYCARP, ONLY ONE GOD HAS DONE THIS- ONLY ONE PERSON. THEY TAUGHT NO SUCH DOCTRINE AS A TRINITY OF THREE PERSONS. THAT IS NOT IN THEIR VOCABULARY, NOR DO THEY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY BELIEVED IN SUCH A TEACHING. Polycarp stated that Ignatius was an example of holiness and endurance, and urged the Philippians to follow his example... HISTORIANS CALL THIS ONE GOD TEACHING OF IGNATIUS AND POLYCARP 'Asiatic MODALISM.'... Modalism because these early disciples of the apostles taught, as the apostles did, that God is indeed only one being... Loofs and Kroyman, for example, were historians who were convinced that Ignatius was a Modalist or Oneness... "We must realize that THE MODALISTS (APOSTOLIC) WERE THE SUCCESSORS TO THE APOSTLES AND NOT THE TRINITARIANS. The Trinitarians expropriated the term 'catholic' (universal) from the writings of Ignatius. When they increased in power and in numbers, they branded the Modalists who preached one God as heretics, and styled their group as 'catholic.'... "We do not find great Trinitarian (Catholic) writers in church history until after the death of Ignatius. NONE OF THEM WERE EVER RECOGNIZED BY POLYCARP OR IGNATIUS. In the latter part of Polycarp's life, some of them began to write and to be recognized in their own Catholic assemblies. But THEY WERE NEVER RECOGNIZED BY ANY APOSTLE, BY POLYCARP, IGNATIUS, OR CLEMENT OF ROME... "Polycarp, and eleven Christians from Philadelphia, were put to death. Before being executed, the eighty-six-year-old Christian testified that HE WORSHIPPED CHRIST ALONE." William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 18-21. ((Ireneus (ca. 180 AD) - "Now man is a mixed organization of soul and flesh, who was formed after the likeness of God, and moulded by His hands, that is, by the Son and the Holy Spirit, to whom He also said, 'Let Us Make Man'" (Heres. IV. preface).)) And now, Pilgrim, we come to your brethren, the Trinitarians! "An early catholic father of note was Irenaeus (c. 135-200 AD)... Actually in his life we may think to observe A TRANSFORMATION FROM MODALISM TO TRINITARIANISM. He claims to have been, as a youth, a disciple of Polycarp. POLYCARP NOWHERE CONFIRMS THIS insofar as we know. NO CONTEMPORARY SOURCE CONFIRMED IT. If it is true, IRENAEUS TAUGHT A TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE LATER IN LIFE that was different from the modalism (oneness) taught by Polycarp. Ireneus maintained that the only succession that counted was the succession of bishops and presbyters which went back to the apostles. Unfortunately, many churches in the Roman Empire's confines could trace their pastors back to the apostles perhaps, but what was their present spiritual condition and what doctrine did they teach? It is ironic that IRENAEUS HAD TO USE AN EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE ONENESS CHURCH IN ROME TO DEMONSTRATE HIS POINT IN APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION... Some of (Ireneaus') statements, to be sure, are not incompatible with an earlier oneness position he may have held, as in the following statements" '...The Father is that which is invisible about the Son, the Son is that which is visible about the Father.' Also, this very striking phrase" 'The Father is God revealing Himself, and the Son is god revealed.'... Ireneaus is undoubtedly indebted to Justin Martyr, and not Polycarp for... Trinitarian teachings..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 31-32. In case you (or anyone else) are interested, here is the Oneness succession of preachers in Rome that the above author is referring to- "Listed below are the ONENESS PASTORS of the church at Rome... Linus (42-67 A.S.), Anacletus (79-90 AD), Clement of Rome (90-99 AD), Evaristus (99-107 AD), Alexander (107-116 AD), Sixtus (116-125 AD), Telesphorus (125-136 AD), Hyginus (136-140 AD), Pius (140-154 AD), Anicetus (154-165 AD), Soter (166-174 AD), Eleutheras (174-189 AD), Victor (189-198 AD), Zephyrinus (198-217 AD), Callistus (217-222 AD)... Adolf Harnack accounted Eleutheras, Victor, Zephyrinus, and Callistus, all to be Modalists or oneness." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 46-55. QUESTION #210) It's kind of ironic, isn't it, that the Roman Catholic Church, the designers of the Trinity, must trace it's history through what historians deem to be THE most conservative Oneness church, to prove their succession from Peter? "Noetus (b. 130 AD)... Unlike Ireneaeus, who claimed Polycarp for his teacher, Noetus taught the Oneness of God as Polycarp had. LeBreton (The History of the Primitive Church, pg 600) has pointed out THAT THE DOCTRINE OF NOETUS IS VERY SIMILAR TO THAT OF IGNATIUS..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, page 39. Please continue with the 226 questions disproving the doctrine of the Trinity. QUESTION 211 Return to the Table of Contents for the 226 questions Return to the preface for the studies on the doctrine of the Oneness of God in the name of Jesus Christ. Read real conversations on the topic of Oneness vs. Trinity. |